campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it... in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. great taste. mmm... [ male announcer ] sounds good. . >>> all right. let's continue this conversation with jane harman, ari fleischer, debating whether chuck hagel should be the next secretary of defense. he said this, supported the letter, direct u.s. engagement with hamas may not now be practical but shutting out the movement and isolating gaza has only made it stronger and fatah weaker. now, that's been seen by some of his critics by saying that he's pro hamas. jane, what do you say? >> he was depending on circumstances, i'm sure we saw all of the pro fatah demonstrations. i would hope that president m e morsi that you just interviewed, that he would help with reconciliation. we shouldn't rule out talking to hamas, i agree with hagel, if they are going to change their stripes and if there's going to be reconciliation of the two governments. it's past time to have a two-state solution. i worry that in both -- for both sides, for